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  1. #1
    Junior Diamond

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    new mod for skewing the game twards fun

    what i propose is to basically have a mod that balances the the game at higher amount if peeps. Make tweaks to the game that makes it more enjoyable. add abilities to make the more interesting than the regular version. Something that moves the game away from stale competitive play to a more FUN game.

  2. #2
    Awesome Diamond Member Vengaboy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Easier said than done im afraid. Im no modder but making slight balance changes usually turn out to be not so slight. The shotgun only holding 6 shells rather than 8 for example... slight change code wise, big change balance/play wise. Every single change to balance has to be tested heavily in order to know whether it actually helps or hurts. I will agree though, i think there needs to be some research into seperate balance mods for small (6v6) games and large (12v12) games.
    "fat beezy"

  3. #3
    Junior Diamond

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Upstate New York.
    Everyone plays this game for different reasons. You're open to find a mod team that'd be willing to attempt what you have thought up, but balance changes are extremely difficult decisions, that require -many- adjustments until it finds a solution that works (or at least somewhat-works.)

    Generally speaking, NS2 isn't geared towards nonsensical entertainment; it is finely tuned towards competitive, methodical game-play and has been refining such play for more than a decade.

    I feel like going off on a tangent about games and balances and all that, so humor me.


    Every action adds up into the end sum (or outcome.) Ergo, it is damned near impossible to find a true state of equilibrium (or fairness) in any scenario outside of pure mathematics. Adding humans into the equation only further destabilizes the result.

    Imagine altering the damage of a body shot in, say, Counter Strike, to be one damage point lower than it was (the original being 25 points.) The alteration is minor, in one developers eyes, and shouldn't effect game-play extremely, they believe. They don't see a reason to alter any other portion of the game in relation to this change, believing the change to be acceptable with the current build of the game (like giving the players more ammunition in a magazine or an increase in overall ammo capacity, so that they stand a better chance of killing the other player with bodyshots, etc.)

    Now, put it into a live scenario. People have been playing Counter Strike since a time when a computer with 512 MBs of RAM was considered overkill. Naturally, these players have developed tactics and behaviors geared towards the overall game itself; the reliance on these behaviors has only increased the longer they play the game and the longer the damage ratios remain the same. But then came along this patch that altered the body shot damage; suddenly, four direct body shots will no longer kill an enemy player. The enemy player, rather than losing 100 HP of health (the maximum in normal gameplay) loses instead 96 HP of health. The enemy player is still alive, and if the other player wants to kill him, he must fire one more shot. This means that his rifle with thirty rounds of ammunition per magazine has fired five bullets at minimum to kill this player, rather than the previous minimum of four. Ergo, he will have to reload sooner than he would before, should he come across another skirmish with an enemy player. While this might not appear to be game-changing, it still means an adjustment in behavior is warrented. Will I have enough ammunition to kill the second enemy player that's creeping up behind the first one? Have I fired so many shots that I should fall back and reload, possibly giving that second enemy player enough time to predict where I am, and set themselves up to counter my new position? Should I just go gung-ho and not reload after my first kill, in hopes that I will be able to shoot the second enemy player without having to reload? Maybe there is even a third enemy player, or five? A third (or more) person that I might have to engage? If so, will I have enough to eliminate him as well?

    Given the age of Counter Strike, veteran players may find themselves at a loss of what to do in that particular moment and end up losing their virtual soldier life.
    Behaviors that worked marvelously well in the previous version of the game, no longer work to the same degree as it once did.

    Now, while Natural Selection 2 may not be as old -- nor as stat reliant, -- there is still a very high amount of veteran players that might not be comfortable with a game changing adjustment; an adjustment that will erase previous tactics entirely, some of which go back to the release of Natural Selection 1.

    If you take nothing else from this post, take this: game-play adjustments on a major scale need to be tested, in hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of game-play, to be truly evaluated and make an estimation on how it effects overall game-play.

    The smallest change can have disastrous effects, if rushed without testing.
    Last edited by Hollowmenphobia; 12-20-2013 at 12:04 AM.

  4. #4
    Administrator Rusty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Hollowmenphobia is right,

    I'm a 12 year veteran NS player - and I count my shots. If I changed the balance on the server, then new players onto the server would need to re-learn and adapt to the server specifics - that being said - it would cause more damage then it's worth. Then the iron comes out hot - re-working, re-vamping, editing - and matching up to the changes that are done to the core system at the same time - not to mention UWE updates.

    We can add in things like Laser mines. Increase grenade counts, and up the cost of certain items - but to get any deeper would not be wise in my opinion.

    Flamethrower Exo? modified to deal same damage output as minigun - concepts are cool. changes are hard.

  5. #5
    Diamond Member Wiggly's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    As the others have said, one does not simply tweak balancing. It's like changing everyone's mouse sensitivity when they join the server.

    "Something that moves the game away from stale competitive play to a more FUN game."
    Unfortunately you're not going to achieve this with minor tweaks. The main problem, as others have mentioned, is that we have grown used to how the game plays right now. A minor tweak isn't going to dissociate us from the current flow of the game and it's more likely to just annoy us or turn us away from the server. For example, my personal reason for not playing in the LuckyFkers server, which does something similar to what you're asking, is I'd have to learn how to play differently with a set of rules that only applies to one server. Because their changes are minor tweaks, in respect to the overall game, it makes it way more difficult to develop a mental switch for your playstyle between vanilla and their rules.

    Well why does LuckyFkers get to do it and we shouldn't? They did it first. Well probably not but they're the poster child of it. If you wanted the server to use a custom balancing mod you're targeting a smaller audience of ns2 players, specifically veteran ns2 players who are getting bored of vanilla rules but don't feel like playing another game. LuckyFkers already have a high stake on that audience so it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to get people to play on our balance mod. In effect, we'd be directly competing with them for the smaller audience and if you wanted to succeed over the status quo, ours tweaks have to be at least twice as good as theirs. And... suddenly a few tweaks become a full time job.

    If you're going to add things you better go big. You have to change the flow of the game enough so the players instantly think, "oh this isn't regular ns2, I wonder how I'm suppose to play this mode?" instead of "wtf why do I have less hp?" This side steps the problem of people being used to original game but is still a lot more work than you originally proposed so I'd doubt it get done. For discussion sake though, cause game design is fun whoo, what kinda mod would work? It would have to reuse the current entities, the maps, and be able to add new abilities.
    TAP: i don't make any mistakes i am the one who leads the team

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