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  1. #1
    Awesome Diamond Member Vengaboy's Avatar

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    Aug 2013

    Question Achievements?... hear me out

    A few beers deep but hear me out... why doesn't NS2 have achievements?

    I know it sounds like a stupid question, but I got to thinking that it might be a good idea. IMO, ns2 is the best fps multiplayer on steam. Better than every CS and source mod out there and most of those (i think) have an achievement system. I'm not at all a collector or achievement whore but being that ns2 is so unique with its steep learning curve, I think it could really benefit the game as a whole. Even being created in a way that would support a future matchmaking system. Players with more achievements would be obvious veterans when the achievements are made to reflect the steep difficulty in game that players experience. As well as a simple AND cheap way to attract more long term players.

    What do you think? Something UWE should consider?
    "fat beezy"

  2. #2
    Administrator Rusty's Avatar

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    Aug 2013
    Actually - remember when I said that I was working on a new mod?
    That's what I was working on.

    A mod for Diamonds - for players to earn achievements for welding for x amount of hours, etc.
    The catch is I need someone to code it. This is above my skill level.

  3. #3
    Diamond Member Wiggly's Avatar

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    Sep 2013
    IMO, ns2 is the best fps multiplayer on steam. Better than every CS and source mod out there and most of those (i think) have an achievement system.
    You propose/subconsciously imply that a good game needs an achievement system and this isn't necessarily true. Contrarily, a lot of people see achievement systems as a sign that it's a bad game. For them, achievement systems are the game designers telling the players, "Hey, what you're doing in the game is so boring we need to give you badges to reward you for actually doing them." This isn't a message a multiplayer game should have and definitely not something Natural Selection 2 should have. You want to players to have fun playing the game not crawl through it so they can unlock achievements.

    So why hasn't UWE spent time to make achievements for NS2? NS2 doesn't need badges to make you feel accomplished because playing it is rewarding in it of itself. For example, when I manage to kill a good fade I get this awesome sense of achievement that no badge attainment can compare to. It's not just an achievement for the player either, it's one for the entire Marine team. Often times your team mates(though usually your comm) will congratulate you for killing that fade. On the other hand, if you unlocked an achievement for killing your 1000th fade, your team won't really care. You might get a "gratz" and that's about it.

    This is actually part of a larger debate/discussion about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Video talking about it in games specifically.

    Well that's a lot of theory but what practical implications would achievements have in NS2? Achievements in a team based game are likely to throw off priorities. If we take Rusty's example of "welding for x amount of hours", you're going to make people who want that achievement prioritize welding to ridiculous degrees. For example, someone could let a gorge walk into the base and bile everything for a few seconds so they could weld up the entire base and make awesome progress towards that achievement.
    TAP: i don't make any mistakes i am the one who leads the team

  4. #4
    V I P Sinistral's Avatar

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    Oct 2013
    I hate achievements since they first came out. I thought what's the point of them? They're "outside" of the game and only part of the service the game runs along side. It was the platforms that first introduced the idea as we know it today; X-Box Live, PlayStation Network, Steam.

    I've changed (for the worse) though and want as many achievements as I can reasonably get. I think this has to do with motivation as Wiggly mentioned. I don't know what it is - I wouldn't miss them one bit if they were gone. I'm not trying to obsessively get every single achievement for certain games. I'll admit it though. On my Steam profile is Achievement Showcase based on rarest achievements earned.

    It's notable how skewed it can be. For the longest time my rarest achievement was BARtender in the Red Orchestra 2 stand-alone mod, Rising Storm. All you have to do is give 20 machine gunners ammo which is possibly the easiest achievement to earn in the game but only has had about a 0.33-0.5% achievement rate. Yet more players have achieved Al Capone's Violin which takes some serious time - unlocking the level 50 Thompson SMG. This is a perfect example of how achievement accomplishment rate does not correlate with achievement difficulty. Another example is if a new map is released for a game like Killing Floor 2. If I play it the day it's released I can beat it on normal and be in the top percentage of rarest earned achievements simply because not many players have even got around to playing it yet. I feel the rarity makes it appear difficult when in reality it's not at all.

    So, now that NS2 has achievements I feel it is a step backwards. It has taken away from the team play aspect which in my opinion, is precisely what NS(2) is about. Some of the achievements are simply outrageous. Build 20 extractors in a game. Really? That would have certainly been possible back in the Gorgeous/pre-Gorgeous update days when games would easily last over an hour. Now with these hyper-shortened games that hardly ever make it past 45 minutes that achievement becomes a chore and takes away from the team play, just like Wiggly was suggesting would happen.

    On the flip-side I have thought about servers being able to implement additional server-specific achievements exactly like Rusty mentioned. This thought originally occured while playing a KF2 mod that saves user progress on the server.

    For NS2 though, no. I give it an emphatic no.

    I guess it's time to see if I can play with one bot and unlock some of the more tedious ones. Not for the achievement itself but to prove to myself how silly they are of course.

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